From One Dump Trailer to Two Trucks in Four Months
Zach from Trash Cat sits down with Josh Reck of Reck’s Hauling as Josh picks up his second Freightliner roll-off truck in four months.
Josh explains why he left the roll-off trailer, what the numbers looked like, how his cycle times changed, and why a truck is easier to staff than a trailer.
Introduction
Zach: Zach here with Trash Cat [Roll-Off Hoists]. I’m sitting down here with Josh Reck of Reck’s Hauling. Josh is out here today picking up his second truck from us in about four months. So I want to sit down with Josh and take a few minutes and have him share his story of how he started out in business and has taken every step along the way to grow what was once a, “Hey, I see a need for one dump trailer in one market,” to now a pretty healthy roll-off business with a couple trucks and a couple dozen dumpsters on the road. So let’s dive in.
Why Josh Wanted Real-World Feedback Before Buying a Truck
Josh: Yeah, absolutely. So for me, when I was looking into getting into a truck, I was trying to find all these videos of people that were running the business, trying to get into it. Like, they’ve been in a truck for two weeks. What are their thoughts?
Zach: Okay, honest feedback.
Josh: But there’s none out there . Everybody will tell you on Facebook, “Oh, get into a truck.” But they’re telling you get into full tandems [tandem-axle roll-off trucks], run 40s [40-yard dumpsters], run 30s [30-yard dumpsters].
Zach: They’re not signing their name on the bottom of the finance agreement.
Josh: And I’m like, you can’t find any real-world experience on someone that went from trailers to trucks without going to the shop doing it. Like you were saying.
Zach: And so you’re talking to a salesman.
Josh: Yeah, you’re talking to a salesman.
Zach: That’s got its place.
Josh: Correct.
Zach: But you want to talk to the guy that’s actually got his name at the bottom of the finance agreement, right?
Josh: Yeah.
The Math: What a Few Extra Dumpsters Pays For
Josh: And like you had said, you can go from, do a couple more dumpsters. And you think about it, you’re like, “Well, it’s a couple more dumpsters.” But as you’re doing it, you realize that a couple dumpsters, that makes the truck payment.
Zach: Multiply that by five times a week. Five days a week times four weeks a month.
Josh: Oh, yeah, absolutely.
Zach: And realistically, you only need, what, another five or eight a month to make that payment? I don’t know what your actual gross is
Josh: trailer-wise or bins-wise [dumpster-wise], I mean?
Zach: Runs [runs per month]. So if you profit $300 a dumpster, an extra five runs a month pays for the truck.
Zach: Yeah.
Josh: Like one job a week pays the difference for the truck. And you’re already going to have a truck payment, trailer payment to begin with, probably.
Zach: Right. So. Yeah.
Roll-Off Trailer vs. Truck: How Many Dumpsters Per Day?
Zach: Run through those numbers again. So you were running a trailer. You said you were doing what? A comfortable day with a trailer was what? Eight runs?
Josh: Yeah. I would say comfortable would be eight. That’s without starting before the sun comes up. And that’s without creating overtime if you had an employee.
Zach: So running regular landfill hours.
Josh: That is correct. I would say eight. Eight or nine [runs]. It’s probably conservative. You know, that’d be max at most.
Zach: And then what’s your real-world experience been with the other truck that you have now, and now with this one, to go from that eight to what’s a comfortable day in a Freightliner?
Josh: Yeah. I mean, in the same amount of time, you can do 11, 12, 13 dumpsters, depending on your distance. You’re cutting your time in half when you’re outside the truck. When you’re on the highway, you still have the same travel distance. But when you’re at the landfill, when you’re dropping a dumpster off, picking one up, you’re cutting your time in half. Backing into a driveway, speed of the system. Everything cuts your time in half. And that 10, 15 minutes per dumpster adds up to be an extra three or four a day, without a doubt.
Zach: That’s just a comfortable pace. Not a guy speeding up, trying to make that.
Josh: Correct. You’re not flying down the highway.
Zach: So drive time is essentially the same. You said maybe you might go a little slower in a Freightliner than your pickup truck.
Josh: Yeah, I’ll go a little slower. But then you make that up everywhere else. Backing in. Maintenance.
Faster Landfill and Transfer Station Cycle Times
Zach: Tell me, okay, so what’s your landfill experience? What’s your routine in a Freightliner?
Josh: We have a transfer station. So we’ll pull up undo our tarp, we’ll back in. And with this, the dump angle [of the hoist] is so steep, everything’s coming out. Unless you have cardboard or something wet, you know, it rained for three days or snow or something. You’ve got to get up in there. But the trailers, they don’t dump very fast and very high. They’ll actually pick the whole trailer up off the ground. These, by the time you get halfway up, everything comes out. So by the time I go around and open the doors, hop in the truck, I just start pulling out. Because the lift [hoist] is already up, all the pile has already come out. And by the time I pull out, the bin [dumpster] is already on.
Zach: So you’re saving a trip out of the truck.
Josh: Correct.
Zach: So once you get back in the truck, you’re in at the dump site. It’s a safety gain there, of you’re not in the trash.
Josh: Oh, absolutely. Less time in the landfill, less smell. The loader has the right of way in most places.
Zach: Right.
Josh: So less chance of getting hit. You’re in and out a lot faster. I’ll back in after people that have already been in there with trailers. And I can pull out, lower everything, close the doors, and be on the scale again before they’re even pulling out. That’s how much faster everything is.
Zach: Wow.
Less Fatigue and Stress: Hauling vs. Towing
Josh: My biggest key is I’ve noticed at the end of the day, you start getting burnt out. In some industries, you get burnt out. So you’re running a trailer, you get burnt out. It’s a lot harder physically, mentally on you, trying to back in, watch the trailer, fit through a tight area. I’ve noticed with the truck, I don’t even feel worn out at the end of the day. Like at the end of 10 dumpsters, I’m like, “All right, let’s do some more.” But you run out of daylight. The trailer, after the 6th or 7th, you’re sweating. You’re tired.
Zach: The mental stress?
Josh: Mental stress. It’s just completely different. When you have a trailer, you might worry about how much weight you can put on there before it picks up the back of your truck. Do you have the right jackknife angle? Do you have enough street to be 40-something foot long? All that stuff. And then, like I said, just the mental wear and tear of pulling a trailer. It’s a lot easier to haul something than it is to tow something. Like vacation. If you’re going in the minivan, you’ve got a bus or your minivan full of stuff, it’s fine. You’re pulling a camper behind you, you’re going to be stressed by the time you get there. Totally different experience.
Zach: Yep. So you’re not fatigued. You’re not stressed out. You’re not worn out. And you’re like, “You know what? It’s okay again.”
Josh: Yeah. You know what I mean?
Hiring Drivers: Why a Truck Is Easier to Staff Than a Trailer
Zach: So that’s you speaking as an owner-operator. Now you also have guys, especially this being your second truck. You’ve tapped into the firehouse world, right?
Josh: Correct.
Zach: Where you’ve got guys that have two 24-hour shifts back-to-back, and they’ve got four days off. So that’s been a really good resource for you, right?
Josh: Oh, absolutely. They have the experience. Common sense goes a long way with dumpsters. You don’t have to have a whole lot of necessarily driving experience or dumpster experience, but just common sense, and they know how to drive the bigger vehicles. So you know their schedule a month, two months, three months ahead of time. That’s what I got into. Where I need help, they come in and help.
Zach: So what’s that been as far as equipment-wise? Certainly you can speak from the owner-operator standpoint of trailer to truck. As you’re thinking about having a hired guy that is capable, can think on his feet, can run big equipment, but also truck-and-trailer capability and the stress and skill level required versus truck. What has that transition been like as far as growing and hiring more people?
Josh: My opinion is getting out of the trailer was the best thing I ever did. I just don’t feel like they’re very safe as far as that goes, and they’re not easy to train on. Anybody can drive a straight truck. It’s like driving a regular pickup truck, a little bit bigger, school bus, whatever. When you add anything in that pivots, you’re backing in the opposite way. You can do a lot more damage to the truck and everything else. By the time you get a reliable truck that you want to put an employee in that’s not going to break down, by the time you buy a new trailer or newer trailer for them to be in, that way it’s reliable, you’re not working on it all the time, the truck’s not much more. And the little bit more that it is, you save on time and the maintenance.
Zach: Because you’re going to have, what, a $50,000 or $60,000 truck, right?
Josh: At least. Yeah, $50,000, $60,000 for the truck. And then a decent trailer, $20,000.
Zach: A 200,000-mile truck before that needs replacement.
Josh: Oh, yeah.
Zach: So you’ve easily got $80,000 in a rig as a truck and trailer.
Josh: And you’ve got two things to maintain. You’ve got extra tires, an oil change on this, all the grease fittings on this, two separate things. Versus when it’s in one, it’s easier to maintain.
Josh’s Origin Story: From Dump Trailer to Roll-Off Business
Zach: So I want to talk business: business concept, business model, business growth, strategy, and mindset. In any business, as far as I’ve seen across industries, especially as an owner-operator, there’s always a question of what’s the best next step. In the manufacturing world, do I buy more equipment? Do I hire more people? Do I put money into advertising? In the dumpster world, it’s: do I buy more cans [dumpsters]? Do I hire a driver? Do I, again, put more money into advertising? Do I buy a truck? For you, it seemed like a pretty natural step to start the business, to say, “All right, there’s a market need.” What was your origin story? You started with dump trailers, didn’t you?
Josh: Started with dump trailers.
Zach: As an easy, like what, for five grand you can get into a dump trailer, test the market.
Josh: Correct.
Zach: Does this business model even work in this area?
Josh: I was driving a concrete truck, just wanted something to do on the side. Started with a dump trailer. It was always out, always out. And then I realized dump trailers, after a while, the maintenance, resale value, depreciation, everything is just a lot on those.
Zach: So that was a second job for you, or that was your nights-and-weekends gig?
Josh: That was my nights and weekends. And then I started doing it full time after about six, seven months, and then got into the roll-off industry instead of the trailers [dump trailers].
The Decision to Switch From a Roll-Off Trailer to a Roll-Off Truck
Zach: And so then what was that step? It sounds like a pretty natural transition from dump trailers to a roll-off trailer. And then what was the transition that made you say, “All right, it’s time to ditch the trailer model and go to the truck business model”? Because it really is a business model shift.
Josh: Oh, yeah.
Zach: With all the benefits from it, there’s risk with that. There’s capital outlay. There’s money. There’s commitment with that. What were your key indicators that made you feel like, “All right, it’s time. It is the right next step”?
Josh: For me, I was telling customers no. So when I had a trailer, I was either running late, not all the time, but quite a bit. Just an extra 10 or 15 minutes per thing made a difference. You thought you could be there at 10, you don’t show up until 11. Some people are okay with it, but some aren’t.
Zach: That shines back on you.
Josh: They’re hiring people to clean out a house, and you show up an hour late with a dumpster. It’s a big deal. So I was telling customers no. I was running behind, even though doing as much as I could. And then, to be honest with you, the trailer maintenance is very expensive, especially if you get something with 9K axles [9,000-lb axles] and bigger. It’s not any cheaper than a truck. So by the time you’re paying the maintenance on that, maintenance on a truck, and paying a truck payment and trailer payment, for a couple hundred bucks a month more, I was able to go into a truck. I can put anybody in it. It was a lot safer at the time, or it still is. It really made sense. When I ran the numbers and I realized it was a couple hundred dollars a month difference, that was a no-brainer.
From Truck #1 to Truck #2 in Four Months
Zach: So Josh, that was July. That was, what, four months ago?
Josh: Yeah, four months ago.
Zach: Four months ago, you were here picking up your first Freightliner.
Josh: That is correct, yeah.
Zach: Four months later, you’re here picking up number two. What happened between then and now? What exploded? Something has taken off?
Josh: Yeah, I just realized that the trucks are where it’s at. I truly enjoy being in the truck. It’s a lot easier, a lot safer, and I can put anybody in it. I trained a guy in less than two hours. He was driving it, backing into driveways, no issue. After I bought this truck, I was able to buy more cans [dumpsters] to keep those rotating, more revenue coming in.
Zach: So you were at, what, like 15 cans on your first one?
Josh: I was at 15, but we do a lot of, like I told you, drop-off, pickup same day for a lot of roofing companies.
Zach: So you’re using those 15 as if you’re turning the same amount of turns as somebody else with 25 cans might.
Josh: Correct, yeah. I would say our 15 was easily 25 if they stayed on jobs.
Zach: And then now you’ve ramped to, with that truck, you bought 10 more cans. So you’re at…
Josh: Roughly 22.
Zach: 22, 25.
Josh: Yep.
Zach: And you’re utilizing that as if you had 40, based on the number of turns you’re doing.
Josh: Correct, yeah. Now it’s getting to the point where, hey, 20, 25 cans [dumpsters] with a truck, that’s a good max. And then anything past that, you need to go to a second truck, get the truck, get the bins [dumpsters]. You can find anybody to go into the truck. Can’t find anybody to go into a trailer.
Zach: So you said the first truck, right before you bought the first truck, you were turning down business or telling customers no or saying, “Hey, I’m going to be an hour late.” Is that the spot you’re in now, of “Hey, you’re feeling like you’re maxed out at one truck”?
Josh: Correct. Yeah.
Zach: That’s really what’s necessitating it.
Josh: As efficient as I can be with one truck, I’m as efficient as I can be. When I got it, I was on time, wasn’t late, was able to get more done. Adding more cans, now I’m starting to get back into the same position where I’m one guy, I can’t be four different places. So it just made sense to find another truck that was within my budget and go big or go home, per se. I mean, make it work.
26K vs. 33K GVWR: Insurance Costs and the CDL Question
Zach: And you looked at some 33K [33,000-lb GVWR] trucks. You were talking about the insurance rates on those.
Josh: Correct. It was almost 10 times the amount versus a truck registered at 26K [26,000-lb GVWR, non-CDL], at least my insurance policy, 26K versus 33K. It was almost 10 times the amount per month.
Zach: So you’re going from $150 or $200 a month on something like this
Josh: to $1,500 a month, which is pretty close to your truck payment.
Zach: Your truck payment on something like this is going to be somewhere between $1,500 and $2,000.
Josh: Yeah. Depending on what options you get and everything.
Zach: And so that’s a truck payment right there.
Josh: Not a lot of insurance companies will, I found out, do 33K. A lot of them stay 26 and below for multiple reasons. But 33K and above is another ballgame.
Zach: As well as finding drivers. In your world, in the fire service world, you have access to CDL drivers. So they’re actually CDL-exempt.
Zach: Oh, really?
Josh: Because it’s a state thing or government thing. So they don’t need their CDL, just like military. So that was the other thing too.
Zach: That would put a constraint on finding a driver.
Josh: They would have to have their CDL. Then you’re back into, you know, you’ve got to be registered with the Drug & Alcohol Clearinghouse, which is fine. You want everybody to be safe. But it’s just more steps. You still have to have the same coverage on a 26K, but it’s a lot cheaper going down the road.
Zach: Cool. Makes sense.
Advice for Other Haulers Moving From Trailers to Trucks
Zach: Thanks for sharing the story. I think a lot of our customers are in that same position. And even you mentioned when you first started to look at trucks, you’re like, “Yeah, the only place to find trucks is from the people who sell trucks.”
Josh: You try to get some real-world feedback. There’s nothing wrong with salesmen. They make the world go around.
Zach: But it’s helpful to talk to the guy that’s actually got his name at the bottom of the finance agreement, and you’re under his fingernails.
Josh: Multiple people told me, “Hey, you’re going to love a truck. You’re going to increase it.” But when you’re thinking about it, you’re like, “Okay, I can increase two or three dumpsters a day. How does that justify the truck?” Well, one dumpster a day more than pays for the truck. So I think me and you had talked about earlier, one dumpster a week, the profit could realistically pay for the truck.
Zach: That would be your break-even point.
Josh: Break-even just for the truck payment. One extra. Well, you’re going to do two or three more extra in a day if you have the inventory.
Zach: If the marketing is there. If the market share is there.
Josh: When I was trying to find a truck, I was trying to find people that were like, “Hey, that was in my situation. Went from trailers, just trying to buy a truck.” Trying to finance everything myself. Not trying to pay cash. Trying to find a good lender. Trying to find a good rate. Trying to find all that stuff. And it was hard to find honest feedback that, “Hey, I increased from this to this.” Every sales dealership you talk to, they’re like, “Oh, yeah, that’s all we sell. We don’t do trailers.” And I can see that. But you’ve got to start with a trailer. At some point, move your way up.
Zach: Is it fair to say, you probably would have never gotten in this business if the barrier to entry was to put 200 grand down to start out. So that was a really good starting point for you to test the market in your area.
Josh: I definitely recommend starting with a trailer. How long you stay in it, that’s going to depend on how fast you want to grow. Looking back on it now, I was in a trailer for roughly five years, which, looking back on it, was four years too long. I could have really grown the business four years ago if I got into a truck quicker.
Zach: Wow.
Josh: Not that I lost business those four years, but I couldn’t grow as fast as I wanted to.
Zach: Right.
Josh: So the truck’s the way to go.
Wrap-Up
Zach: Cool. Josh, thanks for sharing your story. It’s been a pleasure doing this with you. Thank you for your trust in us as a company. Thank you for your trust in our equipment.
Josh: When I can pick up a used truck and drive it 800 miles home, that says a lot. I can hop in the truck, I can go. I came by myself. I don’t have to worry about calling a tow truck. I’ll make it home and be done.
Zach: We’re excited to be a part of your growth journey, and see you take that next step. Maybe even come back for a third.
Josh: Bring it on.
Zach: No, we’re excited to see you grow.
Josh: Yep, absolutely.